Great post. I loved that I heard part of this discussion first hand. Is it contempt for institutionalisation that the youth are displaying or indifference toward authority?
Awesome read, Joel. Absolutely loved it, and glad to have been of some help!
A few notes I wanted to share:
1. To answer your unanswered question: We do abbreviate words often, probably more than English even. The difference with English is that most of these abbreviations are just not consider "French" and rather slang. Still, not a single French person doesn't abbreviate words when speaking. (A bit more on that below)
2. I had no idea French was spoken faster than English. I suppose our way of mumbling words together is part of the reason (for instance: "est-ce-que" just sounds like "eske" and "il y a" sounds like "ya"). This being said, the words suggested by the Academie Francaise, are just incredibly longer to pronounce because they also don't have "mumblable" (pardon my French) syllables.
2. Another problem with the translations is that their meaning is unclear for everybody, almost more than the English versions. The word "en nuage" in the translation of "cloud-gaming" actually makes no sense in French because it's too literal. In the end, people will have to look up the French versions as much, if not more, than the commonly-used English ones. The French version of "streamer" also forgets that not all streamers play games.
All this being said, I do agree the way this has been reported in the news is too negative. The idea of making these terms more understandable to French speakers makes sense but a mixture of English and French would have been the best option in my opinion. "Cloud-gaming" could have been "jeu vidéo sur le cloud" because "cloud" is the most known way to express stuff on the cloud.
Sorry for the ramble and, thanks for making me spend time thinking and researching about this topic!
Great notes, thank you! I'm not sure how seriously I take the speaking speed thing. I mean, the data is true, but only in "lab conditions," you know? Speaking speed and pronunciation are so individualized that any attempts to make general conclusions are just that - general.
Anyway, what I'm thinking at the moment is - have you ever heard that New Yorkers never go to the Statue of Liberty? Or that people in Arizona never go to the Grand Canyon? The monuments are always there so the locals never make it a point to go see them. I feel that way about neighbor languages right now. Like I said, every English speaker is at least somewhat familiar with French and Spanish so I think it makes it too easy to ignore just how different they are and to not give them their proper respect.
Thanks for chatting with me about all this stuff last week and thanks for the great comments here!
Very good point indeed! I know I speak a lot faster (and mumble a lot more) than many French people.
Haha, I completely see, yes. I tend to mention Parisians who've never gone up the Eiffel tower as an example though! And, true, that could the case indeed.
Great post. I loved that I heard part of this discussion first hand. Is it contempt for institutionalisation that the youth are displaying or indifference toward authority?
I suspect it's the latter although Mathias probably has a much better take on it.
Awesome read, Joel. Absolutely loved it, and glad to have been of some help!
A few notes I wanted to share:
1. To answer your unanswered question: We do abbreviate words often, probably more than English even. The difference with English is that most of these abbreviations are just not consider "French" and rather slang. Still, not a single French person doesn't abbreviate words when speaking. (A bit more on that below)
2. I had no idea French was spoken faster than English. I suppose our way of mumbling words together is part of the reason (for instance: "est-ce-que" just sounds like "eske" and "il y a" sounds like "ya"). This being said, the words suggested by the Academie Francaise, are just incredibly longer to pronounce because they also don't have "mumblable" (pardon my French) syllables.
2. Another problem with the translations is that their meaning is unclear for everybody, almost more than the English versions. The word "en nuage" in the translation of "cloud-gaming" actually makes no sense in French because it's too literal. In the end, people will have to look up the French versions as much, if not more, than the commonly-used English ones. The French version of "streamer" also forgets that not all streamers play games.
All this being said, I do agree the way this has been reported in the news is too negative. The idea of making these terms more understandable to French speakers makes sense but a mixture of English and French would have been the best option in my opinion. "Cloud-gaming" could have been "jeu vidéo sur le cloud" because "cloud" is the most known way to express stuff on the cloud.
Sorry for the ramble and, thanks for making me spend time thinking and researching about this topic!
Great notes, thank you! I'm not sure how seriously I take the speaking speed thing. I mean, the data is true, but only in "lab conditions," you know? Speaking speed and pronunciation are so individualized that any attempts to make general conclusions are just that - general.
Anyway, what I'm thinking at the moment is - have you ever heard that New Yorkers never go to the Statue of Liberty? Or that people in Arizona never go to the Grand Canyon? The monuments are always there so the locals never make it a point to go see them. I feel that way about neighbor languages right now. Like I said, every English speaker is at least somewhat familiar with French and Spanish so I think it makes it too easy to ignore just how different they are and to not give them their proper respect.
Thanks for chatting with me about all this stuff last week and thanks for the great comments here!
Very good point indeed! I know I speak a lot faster (and mumble a lot more) than many French people.
Haha, I completely see, yes. I tend to mention Parisians who've never gone up the Eiffel tower as an example though! And, true, that could the case indeed.
The pleasure's all mine. Loved every bit of it!